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  Re: All in Good Cause

 List
Subject: Re: All in Good Cause
Poster: okyn@bu.edu
Date: 23 Mar 2007 09:50:35 -0700
Related Postings: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
On Mar 23, 3:41=C2=A0am, "Paul J Kriha" wrote:
> wrote in messagenews:1174628242.778753.53990@n76g2000hsh.go= oglegroups.com...
> > On Mar 22, 1:22 am, "Paul J Kriha"
> > wrote:
> > > wrote in messagenews:1174521709.509686.51720@n76g2000hs= h=2Egooglegroups.com...
> > > > On Mar 21, 5:34 pm, "Zdislav V. Kovarik" wrot= e:
> > > > > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Jiri Pecka wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:26:04 -0700, Karel Kriz m>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >In article <45fe80dd.13192015@news-server>,
> > > > > > > nos...@nospam.com (Jiri Pecka) wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:24:10 +1000, Stan R a> wrote:
> > > > > > >> <..>
> > > > > > >> Nah, we won't be bothered reading it.
> > > > > > >> We *know* it can't be true because:
> > > > > > >> 1. It is too long.
> > > > > > >> 2. It is too shrill.
> > > > > > >> 3. It does not agree with what Al Gore says.
>
> > > > > > >> And, besides, you are a biased right-wing pro-globalization
> > > > > > >> capitalist, no doubt on the payroll of a major
> > > > > > >> child-labour-exploiting, profit-driven, racist and fascist
> > > > > > >> multinational corporation.
> > > > > > >> Jiri Pecka,
> > > > > > >> Your Friendly Local Carbon Footprint Specialist
> > > > > > >> *** Call me on 01232 6678 6777 to to purchase your carbon cr= edits at
> > > > > > >> unbelievable never-to-be-repeated prices, NOW!!! =C2=A0***
>
> > > > > > >Maybe. Maybe not. The article is fiction, F I C T I O N, writt= en by a
> > > > > > >science fiction writer using fictional characters. So it's just
> > > > > > >speculation. Vapor.
>
> > > > > > >Is this is what you base your opinions on?
> > > > > > >K
>
> > > > > > Sadly, it's not fiction, even though it starts like one.
> > > > > > I bet you didn't read it beyond the first few lines.
>
> > > > > > But even if it was fiction, Karl, there are enough facts alread= y=2E
> > > > > > Have you looked at the BBC documentary yet?
> > > > > > I bet not. And do you know why? Because you
> > > > > > don't want to. You are not in the least interested in facts.
> > > > > > In fact you are *afraid* of facts.
>
> > > > > > And this "fiction" article shows precisely the reasons why it i= s so:
> > > > > > Once people invest their money and energy in a scam, they tend = to
> > > > > > ignore facts and hold onto the scam for as long as possible.
> > > > > > Some (in this particular case many) do so because of vested int= erests;
> > > > > > some because of pride alone (does it include you?) =C2=A0- it b= ecomes
> > > > > > *their* scam.
>
> > > > > > Never mind, time will show. But it won't be cheap.
> > > > > > This is a megascam, a defining scam of decades if not a generat= ion,
> > > > > > just like communism once was. The only people who will benefit = will be
> > > > > > high-flying scamsters and the Al Gores of this world. But I gue= ss this
> > > > > > is the way you like it.
> > > > > > Jiri Pecka
>
> > > > > =C2=A0That's the point: if and when the scam bubble bursts, the p= erpetrators
> > > > > will be impossible to find: switched to other enterprise, retired= , moved
> > > > > away (if alive), the more brazen ones lecturing against what they= had
> > > > > preached before, ... - but enjoying the loot.
> > > > > =C2=A0Except for the dupes who fell for it because of Mr. Gore's = or
> > > > > somebody else's charisma, and who will join the ruined crowd.
> > > > > Cheers, Slavek(ZVK)
> > > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > - Dedecku, dedecku, rikali nam ve skole, ze nase generace se
> > > > > =C2=A0 dozije komunismu!
> > > > > - Me nenaseres, ja mam rakovinu.
>
> > > > The article by Card is impressive but rests primarily on the
> > > > suggestion that Mann manipulated data, to obtain the hockey stick
> > > > effect.
>
> > > Suggestions?
> > > This is not the first article about Mann's manipulation of data
> > > I have recently read. Neither those articles nor the Card's
> > > article look like mere _suggestion_ to me.
>
> > > The maths parts of the articles are pretty conclusive.
> > > It is impossible to reach Mann's results without willfully
> > > manipulating and fabricating raw data.
>
> > > > In spite of that there is a =C2=A0possibility that "the global
> > > > warming" side may still be right.
>
> > > This kind of argument couldn't possibly come from somebody
> > > calling himself an intelectual!!!
>
> > > > Remember that Gregor Mendel was also
> > > > accused of manipulating his data to get desired results of his
> > > > experiments. But today we know that in spite of that his theory was
> > > > correct.
>
> > > You should be ashamed of yourself for publicly espousing
> > > this kind of logic.
>
> > > > On the other hand the BBC film shows many more convincing facts. The
> > > > basic argument: [Sun (sunspots) -> warming or cooling earth ->
> > > > increase or decrease of CO2 with considerable lag] seems to be well
> > > > documented and that would falsify the hypothesis that global warming
> > > > is the result of human activity. To disprove this conclusion, it wo= uld
> > > > be needed either to prove that there is something wrong with their
> > > > data or alternatively to prove that not CO2 but something else
> > > > generated by the human activity is the main cause of global warming.
>
> > > The truth is single handed, There is no "on one hand" and
> > > on "the other hand" in mathematics, science and the whole
> > > physical universe. Truth is what it is. Either we understand
> > > well what is happening, or less well, or not at all.
>
> > This is the pure Horganism!!!!!
> >http://amasci.com/weird/horgnism.html
>
> Of course it's not.
> I read the referenced page and I note that what I said
> is nothing like what the page is talking about.
>
> I made some strong and nasty criticisms of what you
> said, of your logic, of your intellectual astuteness and
> professional integrity and this smoke screen is the best
> you can come up with?
>
> pjk
>

G=C3=B6del http://vedci.wz.cz/Osobnosti/Godel_K.htm

G=C3=B6delovy v=C4=9Bty o ne=C3=BAplnosti znamenaly radik=C3=A1ln=C3=AD zm= =C4=9Bnu p=C5=99edstav o mo=C5=BEnostech matematiky. Po dlouhou dobu byla matematika pova=C5=BEov=C3= =A1na d=C3=ADky sv=C3=A9 p=C5=99esnosti za dokonal=C3=BD vzor pro ve=C5=A1kerou v=C4=9Bdu. = Av=C5=A1ak bou=C5=99liv=C3=BD a chaotick=C3=BD rozvoj matematiky v 19. stolet=C3=AD zp=C5=AFsobil, =C5=BEe = se v jej=C3=ADch logick=C3=BDch z=C3=A1kladech objevily trhliny. Vznikla proto cel=C3=A1 nov= =C3=A1 discipl=C3=ADna, matematick=C3=A1 logika, kter=C3=A1 m=C4=9Bla ve=C5=A1kero= u nep=C5=99esnost a nejistotu odstranit. Matematikov=C3=A9 pevn=C4=9B v=C4=9B=C5=99ili, =C5=BEe= lze vytvo=C5=99it absolutn=C4=9B nerozporn=C3=BD a =C3=BApln=C3=BD zp=C5=AFsob dokazov=C3=A1n= =C3=AD, kter=C3=BD zaru=C4=8D=C3=AD dokonalou jistotu v=C5=A1ech matematick=C3=BDch v=C3=BDrok=C5=AF. Pokou=C5=A1ela se o= to =C5=99ada vynikaj=C3=ADc=C3=ADch odborn=C3=ADk=C5=AF, mezi nimi Whitehead nebo Russel= . Jen=C5=BEe v r. 1931 p=C5=99i=C5=A1el jako blesk z =C4=8Dist=C3=A9ho nebe G=C3=B6del=C5=AFv= =C4=8Dl=C3=A1nek O form=C3=A1ln=C4=9B nerozhodnuteln=C3=BDch v=C3=BDroc=C3=ADch. P=C4=9Btadvacetilet=C3=BD G=C3= =B6del jasn=C4=9B uk=C3=A1zal, =C5=BEe tato snaha je marn=C3=A1. Metodou matematick=C3=A9 logiky odvodil a dok=C3= =A1zal dv=C4=9B z=C3=A1sadn=C3=AD v=C4=9Bty: =C2=B7 V jak=C3=A9mkoli dostate=C4=8Dn=C4=9B bohat=C3=A9m matematick=C3=A9m= syst=C3=A9mu (jako je nap=C5=99. aritmetika) se daj=C3=AD odvodit v=C3=BDroky jejieh=C5=BE pravdivost nelze = pomoc=C3=AD prost=C5=99edk=C5=AF tohoto syst=C3=A9mu ani dok=C3=A1zat ani vyvr=C3=A1tit. =C2=B7 Takov=C3=BD syst=C3=A9m nen=C3=AD schopen zjistit a dok=C3=A1zat svo= u vlastn=C3=AD vnit=C5=99n=C3=AD nerozpornost. Matematick=C3=A9 syst=C3=A9my jsou tedy ur=C4=8Dit=C3=BDm zp= =C5=AFsobem ne=C3=BApln=C3=A9, proto=C5=BEe nemohou prov=C4=9B=C5=99it svou vlastn=C3=AD pravdivost. Exist= ence nejistoty je neodstranitelnou sou=C4=8D=C3=A1st=C3=AD matematiky. G=C3=B6delovy v=C4=9Bty vyvolaly bou=C5=99livou diskusi v=C4=9Bdc=C5=AF, kt= er=C3=A1 pokra=C4=8Duje dodnes. Hlavn=C3=ADm p=C5=99edm=C4=9Btem spor=C5=AF je ot=C3=A1zka, zda tyt= o v=C4=9Bty plat=C3=AD i pro jin=C3=A9 oblasti, ne=C5=BE je matematika - nap=C5=99. pro lidsk=C3=A9 my= =C5=A1len=C3=AD, um=C4=9Blou inteligenci a fyzik=C3=A1ln=C3=AD teorii vesm=C3=ADru.

O=2EK.


>
>
> > > Even if a fraudulent analysis gets by some remote chance
> > > proven in the future (and what's the chance of that here?)
> > > to have been in support of some worthwile cause, it will
> > > still remain a fraudulent argument, and it's author will still
> > > be a dishonest schyster.
> > > pjk
>
> > > > O.K.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

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